16:00:22 <matej_suchanek> #startmeeting Wikidata Office Hour
16:00:22 <wm-labs-meetbot> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 16:00:22 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is matej_suchanek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:22 <wm-labs-meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
16:00:22 <wm-labs-meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'wikidata_office_hour'
16:00:22 <marktraceur> #help
16:00:26 <marktraceur> Oh.
16:00:30 <Lydia_WMDE> \o/
16:00:38 <Lydia_WMDE> soo who is here for the wikidata office hour?
16:00:46 * marktraceur lurks...
16:00:51 <sjoerddebruin> I think I am..
16:00:55 <PKM_> PKM is here.
16:01:04 <matej_suchanek> me ready
16:01:12 <pfps> I am.
16:01:19 <stoopkid> hello
16:01:22 <Lydia_WMDE> perfect :)
16:01:25 <Superyetkin> hello to all
16:01:26 <Lydia_WMDE> hi everyone!
16:01:38 <Lydia_WMDE> nice to see you all made it
16:01:40 * marktraceur introduces stoopkid, who has been talking with us in #wikipedia about possibly helping improve Wikibase.
16:01:53 <Lydia_WMDE> i'd love to start with a short update on all things wikidata from my side with an eye on development
16:02:01 <Lydia_WMDE> and then dennyvrandecic has the stage about freebase
16:02:07 <Lydia_WMDE> does that sound ok?
16:02:12 <Caliburn> Yep :)
16:02:16 <matej_suchanek> ok
16:02:19 <Superyetkin> ok
16:02:30 <dennyvrandecic> hi stoopkid! awesome to hear that
16:02:39 <Lydia_WMDE> great
16:02:42 <dennyvrandecic> thx marktraceur for the introduction
16:02:49 <Lydia_WMDE> so let's look at what we've been up to lately
16:02:53 <stoopkid> hi thank you, i'm glad i found these channels
16:03:08 <Lydia_WMDE> the most noticable is probably the redesign of the sitelink section and the header section
16:03:30 <Lydia_WMDE> we've come quite far. there are still some rough edges to fix but overall i am happy with it. and i hope so are you
16:03:42 <Lydia_WMDE> next up there is the statement section
16:03:49 <sjoerddebruin> Ah...
16:04:02 <Lydia_WMDE> Ah? :D
16:04:14 <Superyetkin> statement section?
16:04:24 <matej_suchanek> what have you done about statements so far? what does remain?
16:04:37 <Caliburn> Superyetkin: The bits headed with "Statements"
16:04:37 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: the part where the actual data is
16:04:40 <Caliburn> ^
16:04:47 <sjoerddebruin> I only saw that you can add qualifiers now when you add a new statement.
16:04:59 <Superyetkin> hmm, ok
16:05:03 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: worked on making it possible to edit references at the same time as the actual main part of the statement
16:05:10 <Lydia_WMDE> and under the hood improvements
16:05:15 <PKM_> Oh great
16:05:25 <Caliburn> Nice :)
16:05:26 <sjoerddebruin> Any plans for reusing references?
16:05:39 <marktraceur> +1
16:05:42 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: ideas but nothing final yet
16:05:50 <PKM_> +17
16:05:52 <sjoerddebruin> Most time consuming thing on Wikidata.
16:05:58 <Lydia_WMDE> noted :)
16:06:04 <Lydia_WMDE> and yeah - not good at the moment
16:06:06 <Caliburn> +18
16:06:10 <Lydia_WMDE> but we have awesome magnus!
16:06:17 <PKM_> Yay!
16:06:17 <Lydia_WMDE> who built https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/sourcery.html
16:06:28 <Caliburn> (if I even remember to source my statements :P)
16:06:34 <sjoerddebruin> Yeah, but that only adds a url right?
16:06:35 <Lydia_WMDE> which let's you much more easily add urls as references
16:06:40 <sjoerddebruin> No date of access etc.
16:06:45 <Lydia_WMDE> *nod*
16:07:09 <sjoerddebruin> References are a crucial part of Wikidata, but it's hard to add them and to maintain them.
16:07:15 <Superyetkin> yeah, accessdate is missing...
16:07:36 <stoopkid> you guys mean references to the outside resources which validate the information?
16:07:44 <Lydia_WMDE> it'd be awesome if you could add your input to https://wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Referencing_improvements_input
16:07:46 <PKM_> I'd love to see access date automatically default to current date.
16:07:47 <Caliburn> Pretty much
16:08:11 <Caliburn> Any advancements on Wiktionary implementation?
16:08:13 <PKM_> stoopkid: yeah
16:08:41 <Lydia_WMDE> Caliburn: dennyvrandecic made some progress on splitting up the tasks needed for it. next step would be publishing this and his mockups
16:09:22 <sjoerddebruin> What's the current status for the query service?
16:09:26 <Superyetkin> how about localization of data?
16:09:28 <Caliburn> Good to hear :)
16:09:40 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: getting to it :)
16:09:53 <Lydia_WMDE> so other things we've worked on:
16:10:05 <Lydia_WMDE> RDF exports
16:10:13 <Scott_WUaS> sjoerddebruin and Lydia_WMDE: for just books, might it be possible to add a reference about a single title eventually by just adding the ISBN, for example? (I'll look at the Referencing improvements input for this as well)
16:10:33 <Lydia_WMDE> those are useful in itself for making sure wikidata is usable by a lot of tools
16:10:58 <Lydia_WMDE> and they are a requirement for queries which people at the foundation are working on and helping us with
16:11:02 <Lydia_WMDE> (yay!)
16:11:17 <sjoerddebruin> Scott_WUaS: I think it's better to wait for the results of the current experiment Citeoid (inside the visual editor) on Wikipedia to see if it works good.
16:11:32 <sjoerddebruin> But that's only my opinion. :)
16:12:01 <Lydia_WMDE> we've also worked on improving language fallbacks further. next steps is showing them for badge labels and then we'll look into how to show them in the selector when you select a new item for example in a statement
16:12:16 <Scott_WUaS> member:sjoerddebruin: Thanks ... referencing is so valuable and takes so much time at WUaS too
16:12:19 <Lydia_WMDE> you now see which language the fallback is coming from as well
16:13:05 <Lydia_WMDE> a team of students is working on improving the constraint reports and making it possible to check our data automatically against other databases. here's some screenshots: https://twitter.com/wikidata/status/582545229884063744
16:13:30 <Superyetkin> any progress on implementing a new "badge" table in the database? I recall this was mentioned on Phabricator
16:13:34 <Lydia_WMDE> this will be integrated in the item view. so when you look at a statement that has an issue you'll see a little indicator next to it allerting you of the issue it has
16:13:51 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: benestar has just been looking into this it seems
16:14:31 <Lydia_WMDE> other things we've worked on: usage tracking and arbitrary access which unfortunately is a can of worms... but we're getting there
16:14:38 <Romaine> Lydia_WMDE: that seems useful for more than only other databases
16:14:48 <Lydia_WMDE> Romaine: what do you mean?
16:14:59 <Romaine> concerning the constraint reports
16:15:23 <Lydia_WMDE> violations of internal constraints will be shown the same way yes
16:15:29 <Romaine> great!
16:15:29 <Lydia_WMDE> or do you mean something else?
16:15:32 <Lydia_WMDE> ok :)
16:15:34 <Romaine> :)
16:15:44 <Lydia_WMDE> more good stuff:
16:15:57 <Lydia_WMDE> katie worked on a gadget to show a lock icon on protected item pages
16:16:13 <Superyetkin> sounds good
16:16:15 <Lydia_WMDE> if you want to see that go live please comment on the topic about it on the project chat
16:16:35 <sjoerddebruin> Would love to have more protect options, like only labels or only statements.
16:17:20 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: *nod* i want to see how far we can get with the work the students are doing. and then evaluate the next steps for better vandalism fighting and so on. this is one of the options definitely
16:17:34 <Jianhui67> hello
16:17:49 <Caliburn> Hi Jianhui67 :)
16:17:49 <benestar> hi guys :)
16:18:03 <Lydia_WMDE> other cool things recently:
16:18:08 <Jianhui67> now, we should close that admin inactivity RFC
16:18:20 <Lydia_WMDE> viaf is moving to using wikidata from using wikipedia: http://outgoing.typepad.com/outgoing/2015/03/moving-to-wikidata.html
16:18:25 <sjoerddebruin> Yeah, nice.
16:18:27 <Jianhui67> it has lasted for a whole month
16:18:39 <Romaine> great!
16:19:08 <Lydia_WMDE> and just today we discussed all the input we got for better integration of wikidata in the watchlist on wikipedia and co
16:19:15 <Lydia_WMDE> that was really useful
16:19:24 <Lydia_WMDE> i've posted the current state on https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Watchlist_integration_improvement_input
16:19:26 <Jianhui67> great!
16:19:49 <matej_suchanek> should we notice users again in Tech News about it?
16:20:00 <Caliburn> Probably
16:20:01 <benestar> Superyetkin: I'm poking devs about this badges table so we can finish the template removal on wikipedias :)
16:20:09 <Lydia_WMDE> and the last point on my list: there is interest from the german wikipedia to do a pilot for the article placeholder feature
16:20:10 <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Article_placeholder_input
16:20:15 <Superyetkin> yes, tech news feedback would be fine
16:20:16 <Lydia_WMDE> i am really excited about this
16:20:29 <Lydia_WMDE> the discussion about the pilot is going on at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Achim_Raschka/Pilot_article_placeholder_input
16:20:42 <Lydia_WMDE> hope we can move that forward over the next weeks/months
16:20:50 <Superyetkin> benestar: yes, I am looking forward to it :)
16:20:55 <Romaine> the number one subject the developers should work on is I think making pages less heavy to load, especially pages about countries are very heavy
16:21:03 <Superyetkin> as a tool developer, I mean
16:21:06 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: yes! who wants to do it?
16:21:14 <sjoerddebruin> Romaine: It is already better than before.
16:21:30 * Romaine just opened the page for the Netherlands, brrr
16:21:32 <Lydia_WMDE> yeah we've worked on that quite a lot
16:21:36 <Lydia_WMDE> but there is more to be done i agree
16:21:55 <Romaine> it seems Wikidata is becoming too succesful so that pages become too heavy
16:21:59 <matej_suchanek> Lydia_WMDE: opening the nest Tech News
16:22:04 <matej_suchanek> *next
16:22:07 <Lydia_WMDE> more questions for me right now or should we hand over to dennyvrandecic?
16:22:11 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: perfect
16:22:18 <sjoerddebruin> Items grew a lot since the new serialization.
16:22:27 <Lydia_WMDE> Romaine: hehe can't be too successful! :D
16:22:36 <Lydia_WMDE> but yeah. it's something we need to improve further
16:22:41 <sjoerddebruin> Hm, we have a new largest item.
16:22:43 <sjoerddebruin> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q12652
16:22:46 <sjoerddebruin> 1.002.458 bytes
16:22:57 <Lydia_WMDE> interesting
16:22:58 <Romaine> too successful = hidden compliment
16:23:07 <Lydia_WMDE> ;-)
16:23:16 <Superyetkin> Lydia_WMDE: what about data localization?
16:23:19 <Scott_WUaS> :)
16:23:48 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: most data is already localized. what's missing is things like good localization for dates for example and coordinates
16:23:51 <stoopkid> why don't you just pull in the data asynchronously as the user scrolls like on tumblr
16:24:00 <benestar> Lydia_WMDE: weren't there plans on not executing any javascript before one starts editing?
16:24:03 <Lydia_WMDE> stoopkid: that's one thing on the table yes
16:24:15 <Lydia_WMDE> benestar: that is partially already the case
16:24:25 <Romaine> what I would like to have myself is an option to make an item page more compact, for 20 properties I have to scroll too much,
16:24:27 <sjoerddebruin> Lydia_WMDE: Most of that translation stuff is because stuffs hosted on github right?
16:24:31 <Romaine> is that something that can be worked on?
16:24:37 <benestar> well for partially it still takes quite some time to load that page ;P
16:24:47 <sjoerddebruin> Romaine: statement section is next for redesign
16:24:48 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: no that's an implementation issue
16:24:56 <stoopkid> Romaine: that's a good idea, and probably simpler than the asynchronous
16:24:56 <Superyetkin> what I mean is, an item with the value "London" should be displayed as "Londra" on trwiki, for instance
16:25:05 <Superyetkin> this may be quite complex
16:25:11 <Lydia_WMDE> Romaine: if you could send me some rough mockups of what would work for you i am happy to consider them
16:25:20 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: that is already the case
16:25:44 <Romaine> I will send an e-mail to the mialing list in 2 days about some ideas/limitations/annoyances I face
16:25:48 <Superyetkin> if the corresponding wikidata item is linked, yes
16:25:50 <Lydia_WMDE> ok
16:25:57 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: yes
16:25:59 <Superyetkin> but what about "London" entered as text?
16:26:01 <Romaine> I will work them out first to describe it better so you can understand it :p
16:26:05 * audephone hopes to incorporate authority control gadget into an extension to avoid js for that
16:26:05 <Superyetkin> not an item
16:26:25 <audephone> and it does API call... Want to avoid that also
16:26:26 * matej_suchanek https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tech/News/2015/15&diff=11720507&oldid=11719642
16:26:28 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: i'll need concrete cases. happy to look at them when you send me some via email :)
16:26:31 <dennyvrandecic> Superyetkin: that's what multilingual text datatype is there for
16:26:38 <benestar> what about showing only the first three statements for each property?
16:27:01 <Superyetkin> multilingual text, sounds good :)
16:27:12 <benestar> this would show all available data and one can expand a property's section if one is interested in learning more about that
16:27:20 <Lydia_WMDE> benestar: such things are also on the table. but it needs UI work and that is slow atm because of few people working on it. (hint hint: we're hiring a UI developer!)
16:27:23 <sjoerddebruin> benestar: I don't like hiding stuff.
16:27:39 <sjoerddebruin> Lydia_WMDE: Germany is not around the corner. :(
16:27:40 <Superyetkin> on trwiki, I can say that we are yet to utilize Wikidata in our articles
16:27:49 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: :/
16:27:50 <Superyetkin> so, need to work on templtes, etc.
16:28:03 <benestar> sjoerddebruin: but showing everything at once apparently does not work :/
16:28:18 <Lydia_WMDE> we'll find ways :)
16:28:30 <sjoerddebruin> I thought things like VIAF are getting their own section?
16:28:35 <benestar> the main part of an item is always hidden, at least under the bottom of your screen ^^
16:28:36 <stoopkid> sjoerddebruin: it is way too slow, i tried loading that page, it should either be sent asynchronously or broken up into smaller pages
16:28:37 <sjoerddebruin> That should clean up the statements section a lot.
16:28:38 <audephone> There is capiunto coming to help with template
16:28:41 <Lydia_WMDE> they should move to the sidebar, yes. that will already help a lot
16:28:59 <audephone> s
16:29:26 <Lydia_WMDE> ok we're 30 mins in and i think we should give the stage to dennyvrandecic :)
16:29:38 <Superyetkin> I agree
16:29:50 <benestar> y
16:29:56 <benestar> hi dennyvrandecic :D
16:29:57 <dennyvrandecic> but Lydia_WMDE will stay around to answer more questions if needed
16:29:58 <Scott_WUaS> yes
16:30:01 <dennyvrandecic> hi all :)
16:30:02 <Lydia_WMDE> yes
16:30:08 <sjoerddebruin> Today is the day for Freebase...
16:30:17 <Romaine> heh!
16:30:20 <dennyvrandecic> or rather, it's close :)
16:30:41 <dennyvrandecic> Freebase will become read-only in the next few hours as some of you may know
16:30:44 <matej_suchanek> so it's another "the day" for Wikidata maybe
16:30:54 <Lydia_WMDE> heh
16:30:58 <dennyvrandecic> matej_suchanek: yes, I think that's more correct :)
16:31:17 <dennyvrandecic> Google has decided that we want to rerelease as much data as possible from Freebase to Wikidata
16:31:34 <dennyvrandecic> and we are currently working hard on a number of pieces for that
16:31:48 <benestar> one question already: how many users do we have to expect who come from freebase to wikidata?
16:32:02 <sjoerddebruin> There are already people moving.
16:32:11 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: tough to say, but we Freebase never had anywhere near the numbers Wikidata has
16:32:14 <sjoerddebruin> Mostly annoying SEO / web design people
16:32:45 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: it is likely that they won't even make a difference in the Wikidata user numbers
16:33:05 <benestar> so servers wont explode :D
16:33:16 <dennyvrandecic> nah, not even close
16:33:26 <dennyvrandecic> yeah, one problem is that SEOs think that Wikidata is replacing Freebase within the Google infrastructure
16:33:35 <benestar> but we need guidelines on SEO on Wikidata
16:33:42 <dennyvrandecic> yes, that would be good
16:33:45 <benestar> companies will come and edit wikidata a lot now
16:33:55 <sjoerddebruin> We've already seen a huge wave of spam of companies and "SEO experts"
16:33:55 <dennyvrandecic> also, Wikidata is not a free ticket into the Knowledge Graph as Freebase was
16:34:07 <dennyvrandecic> it is just one source among many
16:34:27 <Lydia_WMDE> i think we really need to highlight this
16:34:30 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: actually I think that companies editing Wikidata might be very beneficial
16:34:30 <sjoerddebruin> lilatretikov: Well, hi!
16:34:31 <hoo> dennyvrandecic: Can we have that in the FAQ or so somewhere?
16:34:48 <dennyvrandecic> hoo: sure! point me to where to add it and I will
16:34:52 <hoo> Because I think that's a misunderstanding many people have that want to advertise things
16:35:06 <Lydia_WMDE> to the freebase faq?
16:35:07 <benestar> dennyvrandecic: yes, but we have some background on paid editing on dewiki and others
16:35:14 <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:FAQ/Freebase
16:35:16 <hoo> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:FAQ/Freebase
16:35:20 <Lydia_WMDE> :D
16:35:30 <dennyvrandecic> thanks hoo Lydia_WMDE, I will do after the office chat
16:35:36 <dennyvrandecic> but please remind me if I forget
16:35:44 <hoo> Will do
16:36:01 <benestar> dennyvrandecic: tell us a bit about how google will use Wikidata now, please :)
16:36:05 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: I actually tried to start an RFC on paid editing on Wikidata
16:36:27 <dennyvrandecic> but it wasn't regarded as too important and mostly subsumed under UCS anyway
16:36:42 <dennyvrandecic> at least, that seemed my understanding on the RFC
16:37:01 <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Conflict_of_Interest
16:37:10 <dennyvrandecic> thanks for the link, Lydia_WMDE
16:37:25 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: can I defer the question? I first want to talk a bit more on the migration
16:37:31 <benestar> sure
16:37:39 <dennyvrandecic> so the migration involves three components, and several steps
16:37:45 <dennyvrandecic> component 1: the back end
16:38:02 <dennyvrandecic> source code is here, https://github.com/google/primarysources
16:38:06 <dennyvrandecic> it runs on Wikimedia Labs
16:38:29 <dennyvrandecic> and has been developed by an awesome colleague of mine mostly, Sebastian Schaffert, in his 20% time
16:38:40 <dennyvrandecic> one can upload data to the back end, in Magnus' TSV format
16:38:50 <dennyvrandecic> and then it will serve the data and allow it to be marked as wrong, etc.
16:39:01 <dennyvrandecic> basically a thin RESTful service
16:39:12 <dennyvrandecic> component 2: the front end
16:39:28 <dennyvrandecic> current code is here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Tomayac/freebase2wikidata.js
16:39:37 <dennyvrandecic> and you can already include it, but it is not completely ready yet
16:39:51 <dennyvrandecic> User:Tomayac, another Googler, working on his 20% as well, has written it
16:39:57 <Jianhui67> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Cyberpower678/ActiveStats - we are going to lose some admins and an oversighter soon!
16:40:01 <dennyvrandecic> input is more than welcome
16:40:15 <dennyvrandecic> a screenshot is here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool
16:40:23 <sjoerddebruin> Jianhui67: We need to ask active users to become sysop.
16:40:32 <dennyvrandecic> and we have decided, after discussion on the wiki, to integrate the front end as much as possible into the Wikidata UI
16:40:38 <dennyvrandecic> instead of creating a standalone tool
16:40:40 <Jianhui67> I asked Liuxinyu, but he did not want to
16:40:44 <dennyvrandecic> so basically, you surf Wikidata as normal
16:40:56 <dennyvrandecic> and when there is some data you can integrate from freebase, we show it in a different color
16:40:58 <Lydia_WMDE> let's discuss admin stuff once dennyvrandecic finishes? :)
16:41:07 <Jianhui67> sure
16:41:08 <dennyvrandecic> and you can choose to reject, accept, edit it, etc.
16:41:23 <dennyvrandecic> the third component is the data
16:41:40 <dennyvrandecic> we have for now created a very small dataset and uploaded it in the front end, mostly for testin purposes
16:41:59 <dennyvrandecic> a dataset a bit bigger will be uploaded once freebase has gone read-only and we have processed the final dump
16:42:24 <pfps> How is this tool going to work when Freebase completely goes away?
16:42:32 <sjoerddebruin> Dumps? :)
16:42:46 <dennyvrandecic> in order to make sure that we squeeze as much data as possible out of freebase, that you might consider useful, we will host Tpt_ this summer at Google
16:43:01 <Lydia_WMDE> \o/
16:43:05 <dennyvrandecic> shout out to Tpt_ who has agreed to come to us to work on this!
16:43:18 <audephone> yay! :)
16:43:20 <dennyvrandecic> pfps: none of the tools depend on Freebase being available
16:43:21 <Tpt_> Hello everyone!
16:43:23 <Scott_WUaS> :)
16:43:52 <Lydia_WMDE> Tpt_: so you're the first wikidata editor in residence? :D
16:44:02 <dennyvrandecic> So Tpt_ will help us to figure out all the mappings and how to translate the data to Wikidata
16:44:14 <Tpt_> Lydia_WMDE: In a way, yes ;-)
16:44:15 <dennyvrandecic> and also in which order to get it to you, etc.
16:44:47 <sjoerddebruin> What's the best thing that people can do now, dennyvrandecic?
16:44:52 <sjoerddebruin> Add Freebase-id's?
16:45:09 <dennyvrandecic> we will focus first on increasing the number of connections between existing wikidata items
16:45:13 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: yes
16:45:19 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: and most effectively for properties
16:45:30 <Tpt_> Imho improve Wikidata properties and class hierarchy
16:45:34 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: I have made a small set of 20 hand-mapped properties for my first extractions
16:45:47 <sjoerddebruin> Yeah, after the announcement I've already said that we need to match those.
16:45:48 <Romaine> is there a tool that looks for Freebase items that have no ID on Wikidata, and tries to match them?
16:46:08 <Jianhui67> not bad
16:46:19 <benestar> what about users of the freebase api? Are there many? And does the Wikidata provide the same functionality?
16:46:19 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: but what would be super useful is to have, for more Freebase-properties, to which Wikidata-property they should be translated
16:46:51 <dennyvrandecic> Romaine: not that I know
16:47:08 <Tpt_> sjoerddebruin: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1628 may be used for that
16:47:08 <dennyvrandecic> Romaine: we also did most of the low-hanging fruits already based on Wikipedia-links matches
16:47:10 <PKM_> dennyvrandecic:  is there any easy way to see what needs to be find with unmatched properties?
16:47:17 <sjoerddebruin> Tpt_: Yeah, I know.
16:47:37 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: yes, they are quite a few. And no, Wikidata does not provide the same functionality
16:47:41 <sjoerddebruin> PKM_: It's hard to query that I think.
16:47:44 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: yet
16:47:56 <Romaine> dennyvrandecic: how do you have an overview what is moved to Wikidata (or already there) and what is still to be moved>?
16:48:36 <dennyvrandecic> PKM_: discussion on how to make that as easy as possible is here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Freebase#Property_mappings
16:48:53 <dennyvrandecic> so either me, or later Tpt_ can create ranked lists of properties missing mappings
16:49:02 <dennyvrandecic> and then ask for input on how to map those
16:49:10 <dennyvrandecic> but I don't know where and how this would be accomplished best
16:49:19 <dennyvrandecic> More than happy to receive input on that
16:49:34 <dennyvrandecic> Romaine: oh, that's a good question
16:49:44 <dennyvrandecic> and one answer that surprised me most so far
16:50:05 <dennyvrandecic> so I have currently set up a pipeline where I map Freebase to Wikidata as far as possible
16:50:12 <dennyvrandecic> and then filter out what is already in Wikidata
16:50:29 <dennyvrandecic> so that we don't push that to the users as well, as this would just clutter the system
16:50:43 <dennyvrandecic> and Wikidata has already an amazingly good coverage
16:50:43 <Lydia_WMDE> (fyi: we officially have 10 minutes left but there is nothing scheduled here after this so given that there is a lot to discuss today we can make this run over today)
16:51:09 <dennyvrandecic> so, in short, Freebase will not add that incredibly much to Wikidata as it is generally assumed
16:51:30 <Romaine> ok thanks for the answer
16:51:50 <dennyvrandecic> but you don't have to take my word for that, Tpt_ will come here to make sure of that, the dumps are available for independent analysis, and I think we might also have a writeup in the end
16:51:50 <matej_suchanek> Lydia_WMDE: per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours we have 40 minutes...
16:52:02 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: oh good to know :D
16:52:03 <dennyvrandecic> to give a full breakdown of how it went, including the numbers
16:52:18 <dennyvrandecic> I think i answered all questions so far
16:52:28 <Lydia_WMDE> Tpt_: do you want to add a sentence to the FAQ as well saying you'll join?
16:52:28 <dennyvrandecic> any more questions to me, or Tpt_, or Lydia?
16:52:43 <Tpt_> Lydia_WMDE: Yes, it's a nice idea
16:52:44 <Scott_WUaS> dennyvrandecic: amazing work in progress ... big shoutout of thanks!
16:52:46 <Lydia_WMDE> :)
16:52:54 <dennyvrandecic> oh, one more point - the tools are really early stage
16:52:55 <PKM_> Seconded!
16:52:56 <dennyvrandecic> they should work and all
16:53:02 <Lydia_WMDE> yes! thank you dennyvrandecic for going the extra mile to do this all the right way
16:53:05 <sjoerddebruin> dennyvrandecic: Any idea why logging in is required for me on school (Freebase)? :)
16:53:07 <Lydia_WMDE> instead of just dumping the data
16:53:13 <dennyvrandecic> but we will slowly roll them out, without much loudness
16:53:33 <dennyvrandecic> and also gather feedback so that it gets better over time
16:53:43 <dennyvrandecic> as the user base grows
16:53:58 <dennyvrandecic> so that when Tpt_ starts working on the data, we have a tested and stable environment
16:54:06 <benestar> <benestar> dennyvrandecic: tell us a bit about how google will use Wikidata now, please :)
16:54:11 <pfps> I'm confused as to the statement that Freebase doesn't add much to Wikidata.  The raw numbers on Freebase topics 47M vs Wikidata items 14M seems to indicate otherwise.
16:54:14 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: no, I don't :)
16:54:45 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: Google has an internal Knowledge Graph, which is fed from several different sources
16:55:16 <Lydia_WMDE> pfps: it comes down to different ways of counting plus concepts we consider not notable
16:55:34 <dennyvrandecic> among other sources, Wikidata is a source we are using as an input, but also MusicBrainz, etc.
16:55:59 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: actually, a huge chunk of data we use is schema.org, i.e. the Web itself
16:56:18 <dennyvrandecic> and for SEO, really, i think it is much more appropriate to use schema.org than to try to push yourself through Wikidata
16:56:52 <dennyvrandecic> just like it is OK to have a Website about your product or company, you shoul also have your little knowledge graph about your company, described in schema.org
16:56:57 <sjoerddebruin> dennyvrandecic: If I remember it right, YouTube uses content of Wikipedia without attribution. Could you communicate that internally?
16:57:24 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: that would be bad. my email ist my last name at google dot com. please send me info on that and I will look into it
16:57:33 <benestar> dennyvrandecic: that SEO point has to be made clear from Google's side as well, not only on Wikidata
16:57:44 <sjoerddebruin> Will do.
16:57:56 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: the main difference between Wikidata and Freebase for Google is that we trusted Freebase, it was our core of the KG
16:58:18 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: Wikidata on the other hand is just one source among many
16:58:31 <Lydia_WMDE> (but a good one ;-))
16:58:33 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: yes, we say that wherever we are asked :)
16:59:01 <benestar> ok, this will prevent some SEO spam on wikidata I hope
16:59:16 <dennyvrandecic> pfps: the difference in number is mostly a difference in counting and notability
16:59:23 <Lydia_WMDE> yeah if it is in the FAQ that'd be really helpful to be able to point people to it
16:59:42 <dennyvrandecic> pfps: especially the difference in "fact count" is ... grossly exagerrating
16:59:47 <dennyvrandecic> incredibly grossly
17:00:41 <dennyvrandecic> the item count is partly based on differences in ontology, i.e. in what counts
17:01:13 <Lydia_WMDE> alright. more pressing questions? or should we hand over to Jianhui67 for the discussion about admin activity?
17:01:25 <dennyvrandecic> thanks folks for your questions!
17:01:29 <Jianhui67> good
17:01:39 <Romaine> dennyvrandecic: thank you for your work
17:01:45 <Jianhui67> right, i think we should close the RFC
17:02:55 <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Reforming_administrator_inactivity_criteria is the RfC in question
17:03:45 <Jianhui67> we may be losing one oversighter anyway
17:03:58 <Jianhui67> if does not do 5 more admin actions on time
17:04:27 <Jianhui67> he is SPQRobin. if he really loses access, then we have no european coverage
17:05:05 <sjoerddebruin> That will be bad.
17:05:52 <matej_suchanek> Lydia_WMDE: could you tell us more about the arbitrary access development? you know, I am really looking forward to having it launched
17:06:25 <Romaine> my first question would be if there is a tool to measure admin actions?
17:06:31 <Jianhui67> well, can we have someone not involved to do the closing today
17:06:38 <Jianhui67> matej_suchanek
17:06:50 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: usage tracking is a requirement for it. so this means knowing which data is used where. we're currently running into issues there with multilingual wikis and caching. i hope we can fix this soon and have it rolled out on the first projects.
17:07:31 <sjoerddebruin> Romaine: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Cyberpower678/ActiveStats ?
17:07:41 <matej_suchanek> sorry, missing courage for it :(
17:08:03 <Jianhui67> Romaine
17:08:44 <Jianhui67> benestar, i think you are not involved in the rfc as well
17:09:19 <benestar> Jianhui67: sry, was afk
17:09:22 <benestar> which RFC?
17:09:29 <Jianhui67> 1:02:57 AM <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Reforming_administrator_inactivity_criteria is the RfC in question
17:09:33 <benestar> ty
17:09:55 * Romaine has to go now
17:09:59 <sjoerddebruin> btw, I'm also uninvolved but this RFC is too confusing for me
17:10:44 <Jianhui67> indeed...
17:10:48 <benestar> so the results will be 5 admin/crat actions over 6 months, no reprieve and no regaining
17:10:54 <benestar> right?
17:10:59 <Jianhui67> yea
17:11:53 <dennyvrandecic> added to the Freebase FAQ, hoo: Lydia_WMDE: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:FAQ/Freebase#By_adding_to_Wikidata.2C_I_have_a_free_ticket_into_Google.27s_Knowledge_Graph.2C_right.3F
17:12:02 <Jianhui67> we should ask cyberpower to rewrite his script as well
17:12:31 <sjoerddebruin> I don't think he responds. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Cyberpower678/ActiveStats
17:12:34 <sjoerddebruin> Ehm
17:12:34 <sjoerddebruin> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cyberpower678
17:12:49 <hoo> dennyvrandecic: Nice! :)
17:13:51 <dennyvrandecic> i'll let someone else add the translation tags, they seriously confuse me every time
17:13:51 <Jianhui67> if he's here in IRC I will ping him
17:14:36 <matej_suchanek> dennyvrandecic: will do
17:15:01 <Scott_WUaS> dennyvrandecic: do you have a URL for Wikidata translation tags?
17:15:26 <dennyvrandecic> Scott_WUaS: https://github.com/googleknowledge/qlabel
17:15:32 <benestar> Jianhui67: here you go ;)
17:15:38 <Scott_WUaS> Thanks ")
17:15:40 <dennyvrandecic> Scott_WUaS: or better, http://googleknowledge.github.io/qlabel/
17:15:50 <benestar> can you handle the archiving thing etc?
17:15:59 <Jianhui67> Great!
17:16:03 <Lydia_WMDE> \o/
17:16:05 <Jianhui67> thanks benestar
17:16:07 <benestar> have to go now and wont come online this week again perhaps :/
17:16:14 <benestar> or only from mobile ;)
17:16:21 <Jianhui67> why? school?
17:16:28 <benestar> vacation :P
17:16:49 <Lydia_WMDE> sweet
17:16:55 <Lydia_WMDE> anything else we should discuss today?
17:17:04 <sjoerddebruin> Will we get new merch?
17:17:04 <Lydia_WMDE> benestar: bye :)
17:17:06 <Scott_WUaS> dennyvrandecic: (WUaS could help with this eventually - planned for Wikipedia's 288 languages +)
17:17:07 <benestar> so have fun with the new rfc and cya
17:17:09 <sjoerddebruin> Like the Wikidata onesie?
17:17:17 <benestar> * closed rfc
17:17:19 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: hihi. i'll add the onsie to the wish list
17:17:20 <Lydia_WMDE> :P
17:17:33 <Lydia_WMDE> other suggestions for new merch?
17:18:00 <dennyvrandecic> Scott_WUaS: sure, qlabel uses linked open data standards, so works out of the box with anything that implements that
17:18:45 <Lydia_WMDE> if there's nothing else we can wrap this up for today
17:18:49 <Lydia_WMDE> thanks so much for coming everyone
17:18:53 <Lydia_WMDE> this was fun :)
17:18:57 <dennyvrandecic> thanks everyone!
17:19:07 <Scott_WUaS> Great ... qLabel which you wrote is great too ... WUaS (but it wouldn't be me) isn't quite there to help with this ... but let's stay in touch about this
17:19:33 <Scott_WUaS> dennyvrandecic and Lydia and everyone: Thank you!
17:19:36 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: you have the honor of closing :D
17:19:50 <matej_suchanek> okay thank you all
17:19:53 <matej_suchanek> #endmeeting