16:00:22 <matej_suchanek> #startmeeting Wikidata Office Hour 16:00:22 <wm-labs-meetbot> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 16:00:22 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is matej_suchanek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:22 <wm-labs-meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 16:00:22 <wm-labs-meetbot> The meeting name has been set to 'wikidata_office_hour' 16:00:22 <marktraceur> #help 16:00:26 <marktraceur> Oh. 16:00:30 <Lydia_WMDE> \o/ 16:00:38 <Lydia_WMDE> soo who is here for the wikidata office hour? 16:00:46 * marktraceur lurks... 16:00:51 <sjoerddebruin> I think I am.. 16:00:55 <PKM_> PKM is here. 16:01:04 <matej_suchanek> me ready 16:01:12 <pfps> I am. 16:01:19 <stoopkid> hello 16:01:22 <Lydia_WMDE> perfect :) 16:01:25 <Superyetkin> hello to all 16:01:26 <Lydia_WMDE> hi everyone! 16:01:38 <Lydia_WMDE> nice to see you all made it 16:01:40 * marktraceur introduces stoopkid, who has been talking with us in #wikipedia about possibly helping improve Wikibase. 16:01:53 <Lydia_WMDE> i'd love to start with a short update on all things wikidata from my side with an eye on development 16:02:01 <Lydia_WMDE> and then dennyvrandecic has the stage about freebase 16:02:07 <Lydia_WMDE> does that sound ok? 16:02:12 <Caliburn> Yep :) 16:02:16 <matej_suchanek> ok 16:02:19 <Superyetkin> ok 16:02:30 <dennyvrandecic> hi stoopkid! awesome to hear that 16:02:39 <Lydia_WMDE> great 16:02:42 <dennyvrandecic> thx marktraceur for the introduction 16:02:49 <Lydia_WMDE> so let's look at what we've been up to lately 16:02:53 <stoopkid> hi thank you, i'm glad i found these channels 16:03:08 <Lydia_WMDE> the most noticable is probably the redesign of the sitelink section and the header section 16:03:30 <Lydia_WMDE> we've come quite far. there are still some rough edges to fix but overall i am happy with it. and i hope so are you 16:03:42 <Lydia_WMDE> next up there is the statement section 16:03:49 <sjoerddebruin> Ah... 16:04:02 <Lydia_WMDE> Ah? :D 16:04:14 <Superyetkin> statement section? 16:04:24 <matej_suchanek> what have you done about statements so far? what does remain? 16:04:37 <Caliburn> Superyetkin: The bits headed with "Statements" 16:04:37 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: the part where the actual data is 16:04:40 <Caliburn> ^ 16:04:47 <sjoerddebruin> I only saw that you can add qualifiers now when you add a new statement. 16:04:59 <Superyetkin> hmm, ok 16:05:03 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: worked on making it possible to edit references at the same time as the actual main part of the statement 16:05:10 <Lydia_WMDE> and under the hood improvements 16:05:15 <PKM_> Oh great 16:05:25 <Caliburn> Nice :) 16:05:26 <sjoerddebruin> Any plans for reusing references? 16:05:39 <marktraceur> +1 16:05:42 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: ideas but nothing final yet 16:05:50 <PKM_> +17 16:05:52 <sjoerddebruin> Most time consuming thing on Wikidata. 16:05:58 <Lydia_WMDE> noted :) 16:06:04 <Lydia_WMDE> and yeah - not good at the moment 16:06:06 <Caliburn> +18 16:06:10 <Lydia_WMDE> but we have awesome magnus! 16:06:17 <PKM_> Yay! 16:06:17 <Lydia_WMDE> who built https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/sourcery.html 16:06:28 <Caliburn> (if I even remember to source my statements :P) 16:06:34 <sjoerddebruin> Yeah, but that only adds a url right? 16:06:35 <Lydia_WMDE> which let's you much more easily add urls as references 16:06:40 <sjoerddebruin> No date of access etc. 16:06:45 <Lydia_WMDE> *nod* 16:07:09 <sjoerddebruin> References are a crucial part of Wikidata, but it's hard to add them and to maintain them. 16:07:15 <Superyetkin> yeah, accessdate is missing... 16:07:36 <stoopkid> you guys mean references to the outside resources which validate the information? 16:07:44 <Lydia_WMDE> it'd be awesome if you could add your input to https://wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Referencing_improvements_input 16:07:46 <PKM_> I'd love to see access date automatically default to current date. 16:07:47 <Caliburn> Pretty much 16:08:11 <Caliburn> Any advancements on Wiktionary implementation? 16:08:13 <PKM_> stoopkid: yeah 16:08:41 <Lydia_WMDE> Caliburn: dennyvrandecic made some progress on splitting up the tasks needed for it. next step would be publishing this and his mockups 16:09:22 <sjoerddebruin> What's the current status for the query service? 16:09:26 <Superyetkin> how about localization of data? 16:09:28 <Caliburn> Good to hear :) 16:09:40 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: getting to it :) 16:09:53 <Lydia_WMDE> so other things we've worked on: 16:10:05 <Lydia_WMDE> RDF exports 16:10:13 <Scott_WUaS> sjoerddebruin and Lydia_WMDE: for just books, might it be possible to add a reference about a single title eventually by just adding the ISBN, for example? (I'll look at the Referencing improvements input for this as well) 16:10:33 <Lydia_WMDE> those are useful in itself for making sure wikidata is usable by a lot of tools 16:10:58 <Lydia_WMDE> and they are a requirement for queries which people at the foundation are working on and helping us with 16:11:02 <Lydia_WMDE> (yay!) 16:11:17 <sjoerddebruin> Scott_WUaS: I think it's better to wait for the results of the current experiment Citeoid (inside the visual editor) on Wikipedia to see if it works good. 16:11:32 <sjoerddebruin> But that's only my opinion. :) 16:12:01 <Lydia_WMDE> we've also worked on improving language fallbacks further. next steps is showing them for badge labels and then we'll look into how to show them in the selector when you select a new item for example in a statement 16:12:16 <Scott_WUaS> member:sjoerddebruin: Thanks ... referencing is so valuable and takes so much time at WUaS too 16:12:19 <Lydia_WMDE> you now see which language the fallback is coming from as well 16:13:05 <Lydia_WMDE> a team of students is working on improving the constraint reports and making it possible to check our data automatically against other databases. here's some screenshots: https://twitter.com/wikidata/status/582545229884063744 16:13:30 <Superyetkin> any progress on implementing a new "badge" table in the database? I recall this was mentioned on Phabricator 16:13:34 <Lydia_WMDE> this will be integrated in the item view. so when you look at a statement that has an issue you'll see a little indicator next to it allerting you of the issue it has 16:13:51 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: benestar has just been looking into this it seems 16:14:31 <Lydia_WMDE> other things we've worked on: usage tracking and arbitrary access which unfortunately is a can of worms... but we're getting there 16:14:38 <Romaine> Lydia_WMDE: that seems useful for more than only other databases 16:14:48 <Lydia_WMDE> Romaine: what do you mean? 16:14:59 <Romaine> concerning the constraint reports 16:15:23 <Lydia_WMDE> violations of internal constraints will be shown the same way yes 16:15:29 <Romaine> great! 16:15:29 <Lydia_WMDE> or do you mean something else? 16:15:32 <Lydia_WMDE> ok :) 16:15:34 <Romaine> :) 16:15:44 <Lydia_WMDE> more good stuff: 16:15:57 <Lydia_WMDE> katie worked on a gadget to show a lock icon on protected item pages 16:16:13 <Superyetkin> sounds good 16:16:15 <Lydia_WMDE> if you want to see that go live please comment on the topic about it on the project chat 16:16:35 <sjoerddebruin> Would love to have more protect options, like only labels or only statements. 16:17:20 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: *nod* i want to see how far we can get with the work the students are doing. and then evaluate the next steps for better vandalism fighting and so on. this is one of the options definitely 16:17:34 <Jianhui67> hello 16:17:49 <Caliburn> Hi Jianhui67 :) 16:17:49 <benestar> hi guys :) 16:18:03 <Lydia_WMDE> other cool things recently: 16:18:08 <Jianhui67> now, we should close that admin inactivity RFC 16:18:20 <Lydia_WMDE> viaf is moving to using wikidata from using wikipedia: http://outgoing.typepad.com/outgoing/2015/03/moving-to-wikidata.html 16:18:25 <sjoerddebruin> Yeah, nice. 16:18:27 <Jianhui67> it has lasted for a whole month 16:18:39 <Romaine> great! 16:19:08 <Lydia_WMDE> and just today we discussed all the input we got for better integration of wikidata in the watchlist on wikipedia and co 16:19:15 <Lydia_WMDE> that was really useful 16:19:24 <Lydia_WMDE> i've posted the current state on https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Watchlist_integration_improvement_input 16:19:26 <Jianhui67> great! 16:19:49 <matej_suchanek> should we notice users again in Tech News about it? 16:20:00 <Caliburn> Probably 16:20:01 <benestar> Superyetkin: I'm poking devs about this badges table so we can finish the template removal on wikipedias :) 16:20:09 <Lydia_WMDE> and the last point on my list: there is interest from the german wikipedia to do a pilot for the article placeholder feature 16:20:10 <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Article_placeholder_input 16:20:15 <Superyetkin> yes, tech news feedback would be fine 16:20:16 <Lydia_WMDE> i am really excited about this 16:20:29 <Lydia_WMDE> the discussion about the pilot is going on at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Achim_Raschka/Pilot_article_placeholder_input 16:20:42 <Lydia_WMDE> hope we can move that forward over the next weeks/months 16:20:50 <Superyetkin> benestar: yes, I am looking forward to it :) 16:20:55 <Romaine> the number one subject the developers should work on is I think making pages less heavy to load, especially pages about countries are very heavy 16:21:03 <Superyetkin> as a tool developer, I mean 16:21:06 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: yes! who wants to do it? 16:21:14 <sjoerddebruin> Romaine: It is already better than before. 16:21:30 * Romaine just opened the page for the Netherlands, brrr 16:21:32 <Lydia_WMDE> yeah we've worked on that quite a lot 16:21:36 <Lydia_WMDE> but there is more to be done i agree 16:21:55 <Romaine> it seems Wikidata is becoming too succesful so that pages become too heavy 16:21:59 <matej_suchanek> Lydia_WMDE: opening the nest Tech News 16:22:04 <matej_suchanek> *next 16:22:07 <Lydia_WMDE> more questions for me right now or should we hand over to dennyvrandecic? 16:22:11 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: perfect 16:22:18 <sjoerddebruin> Items grew a lot since the new serialization. 16:22:27 <Lydia_WMDE> Romaine: hehe can't be too successful! :D 16:22:36 <Lydia_WMDE> but yeah. it's something we need to improve further 16:22:41 <sjoerddebruin> Hm, we have a new largest item. 16:22:43 <sjoerddebruin> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q12652 16:22:46 <sjoerddebruin> 1.002.458 bytes 16:22:57 <Lydia_WMDE> interesting 16:22:58 <Romaine> too successful = hidden compliment 16:23:07 <Lydia_WMDE> ;-) 16:23:16 <Superyetkin> Lydia_WMDE: what about data localization? 16:23:19 <Scott_WUaS> :) 16:23:48 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: most data is already localized. what's missing is things like good localization for dates for example and coordinates 16:23:51 <stoopkid> why don't you just pull in the data asynchronously as the user scrolls like on tumblr 16:24:00 <benestar> Lydia_WMDE: weren't there plans on not executing any javascript before one starts editing? 16:24:03 <Lydia_WMDE> stoopkid: that's one thing on the table yes 16:24:15 <Lydia_WMDE> benestar: that is partially already the case 16:24:25 <Romaine> what I would like to have myself is an option to make an item page more compact, for 20 properties I have to scroll too much, 16:24:27 <sjoerddebruin> Lydia_WMDE: Most of that translation stuff is because stuffs hosted on github right? 16:24:31 <Romaine> is that something that can be worked on? 16:24:37 <benestar> well for partially it still takes quite some time to load that page ;P 16:24:47 <sjoerddebruin> Romaine: statement section is next for redesign 16:24:48 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: no that's an implementation issue 16:24:56 <stoopkid> Romaine: that's a good idea, and probably simpler than the asynchronous 16:24:56 <Superyetkin> what I mean is, an item with the value "London" should be displayed as "Londra" on trwiki, for instance 16:25:05 <Superyetkin> this may be quite complex 16:25:11 <Lydia_WMDE> Romaine: if you could send me some rough mockups of what would work for you i am happy to consider them 16:25:20 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: that is already the case 16:25:44 <Romaine> I will send an e-mail to the mialing list in 2 days about some ideas/limitations/annoyances I face 16:25:48 <Superyetkin> if the corresponding wikidata item is linked, yes 16:25:50 <Lydia_WMDE> ok 16:25:57 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: yes 16:25:59 <Superyetkin> but what about "London" entered as text? 16:26:01 <Romaine> I will work them out first to describe it better so you can understand it :p 16:26:05 * audephone hopes to incorporate authority control gadget into an extension to avoid js for that 16:26:05 <Superyetkin> not an item 16:26:25 <audephone> and it does API call... Want to avoid that also 16:26:26 * matej_suchanek https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tech/News/2015/15&diff=11720507&oldid=11719642 16:26:28 <Lydia_WMDE> Superyetkin: i'll need concrete cases. happy to look at them when you send me some via email :) 16:26:31 <dennyvrandecic> Superyetkin: that's what multilingual text datatype is there for 16:26:38 <benestar> what about showing only the first three statements for each property? 16:27:01 <Superyetkin> multilingual text, sounds good :) 16:27:12 <benestar> this would show all available data and one can expand a property's section if one is interested in learning more about that 16:27:20 <Lydia_WMDE> benestar: such things are also on the table. but it needs UI work and that is slow atm because of few people working on it. (hint hint: we're hiring a UI developer!) 16:27:23 <sjoerddebruin> benestar: I don't like hiding stuff. 16:27:39 <sjoerddebruin> Lydia_WMDE: Germany is not around the corner. :( 16:27:40 <Superyetkin> on trwiki, I can say that we are yet to utilize Wikidata in our articles 16:27:49 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: :/ 16:27:50 <Superyetkin> so, need to work on templtes, etc. 16:28:03 <benestar> sjoerddebruin: but showing everything at once apparently does not work :/ 16:28:18 <Lydia_WMDE> we'll find ways :) 16:28:30 <sjoerddebruin> I thought things like VIAF are getting their own section? 16:28:35 <benestar> the main part of an item is always hidden, at least under the bottom of your screen ^^ 16:28:36 <stoopkid> sjoerddebruin: it is way too slow, i tried loading that page, it should either be sent asynchronously or broken up into smaller pages 16:28:37 <sjoerddebruin> That should clean up the statements section a lot. 16:28:38 <audephone> There is capiunto coming to help with template 16:28:41 <Lydia_WMDE> they should move to the sidebar, yes. that will already help a lot 16:28:59 <audephone> s 16:29:26 <Lydia_WMDE> ok we're 30 mins in and i think we should give the stage to dennyvrandecic :) 16:29:38 <Superyetkin> I agree 16:29:50 <benestar> y 16:29:56 <benestar> hi dennyvrandecic :D 16:29:57 <dennyvrandecic> but Lydia_WMDE will stay around to answer more questions if needed 16:29:58 <Scott_WUaS> yes 16:30:01 <dennyvrandecic> hi all :) 16:30:02 <Lydia_WMDE> yes 16:30:08 <sjoerddebruin> Today is the day for Freebase... 16:30:17 <Romaine> heh! 16:30:20 <dennyvrandecic> or rather, it's close :) 16:30:41 <dennyvrandecic> Freebase will become read-only in the next few hours as some of you may know 16:30:44 <matej_suchanek> so it's another "the day" for Wikidata maybe 16:30:54 <Lydia_WMDE> heh 16:30:58 <dennyvrandecic> matej_suchanek: yes, I think that's more correct :) 16:31:17 <dennyvrandecic> Google has decided that we want to rerelease as much data as possible from Freebase to Wikidata 16:31:34 <dennyvrandecic> and we are currently working hard on a number of pieces for that 16:31:48 <benestar> one question already: how many users do we have to expect who come from freebase to wikidata? 16:32:02 <sjoerddebruin> There are already people moving. 16:32:11 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: tough to say, but we Freebase never had anywhere near the numbers Wikidata has 16:32:14 <sjoerddebruin> Mostly annoying SEO / web design people 16:32:45 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: it is likely that they won't even make a difference in the Wikidata user numbers 16:33:05 <benestar> so servers wont explode :D 16:33:16 <dennyvrandecic> nah, not even close 16:33:26 <dennyvrandecic> yeah, one problem is that SEOs think that Wikidata is replacing Freebase within the Google infrastructure 16:33:35 <benestar> but we need guidelines on SEO on Wikidata 16:33:42 <dennyvrandecic> yes, that would be good 16:33:45 <benestar> companies will come and edit wikidata a lot now 16:33:55 <sjoerddebruin> We've already seen a huge wave of spam of companies and "SEO experts" 16:33:55 <dennyvrandecic> also, Wikidata is not a free ticket into the Knowledge Graph as Freebase was 16:34:07 <dennyvrandecic> it is just one source among many 16:34:27 <Lydia_WMDE> i think we really need to highlight this 16:34:30 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: actually I think that companies editing Wikidata might be very beneficial 16:34:30 <sjoerddebruin> lilatretikov: Well, hi! 16:34:31 <hoo> dennyvrandecic: Can we have that in the FAQ or so somewhere? 16:34:48 <dennyvrandecic> hoo: sure! point me to where to add it and I will 16:34:52 <hoo> Because I think that's a misunderstanding many people have that want to advertise things 16:35:06 <Lydia_WMDE> to the freebase faq? 16:35:07 <benestar> dennyvrandecic: yes, but we have some background on paid editing on dewiki and others 16:35:14 <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:FAQ/Freebase 16:35:16 <hoo> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:FAQ/Freebase 16:35:20 <Lydia_WMDE> :D 16:35:30 <dennyvrandecic> thanks hoo Lydia_WMDE, I will do after the office chat 16:35:36 <dennyvrandecic> but please remind me if I forget 16:35:44 <hoo> Will do 16:36:01 <benestar> dennyvrandecic: tell us a bit about how google will use Wikidata now, please :) 16:36:05 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: I actually tried to start an RFC on paid editing on Wikidata 16:36:27 <dennyvrandecic> but it wasn't regarded as too important and mostly subsumed under UCS anyway 16:36:42 <dennyvrandecic> at least, that seemed my understanding on the RFC 16:37:01 <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Conflict_of_Interest 16:37:10 <dennyvrandecic> thanks for the link, Lydia_WMDE 16:37:25 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: can I defer the question? I first want to talk a bit more on the migration 16:37:31 <benestar> sure 16:37:39 <dennyvrandecic> so the migration involves three components, and several steps 16:37:45 <dennyvrandecic> component 1: the back end 16:38:02 <dennyvrandecic> source code is here, https://github.com/google/primarysources 16:38:06 <dennyvrandecic> it runs on Wikimedia Labs 16:38:29 <dennyvrandecic> and has been developed by an awesome colleague of mine mostly, Sebastian Schaffert, in his 20% time 16:38:40 <dennyvrandecic> one can upload data to the back end, in Magnus' TSV format 16:38:50 <dennyvrandecic> and then it will serve the data and allow it to be marked as wrong, etc. 16:39:01 <dennyvrandecic> basically a thin RESTful service 16:39:12 <dennyvrandecic> component 2: the front end 16:39:28 <dennyvrandecic> current code is here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Tomayac/freebase2wikidata.js 16:39:37 <dennyvrandecic> and you can already include it, but it is not completely ready yet 16:39:51 <dennyvrandecic> User:Tomayac, another Googler, working on his 20% as well, has written it 16:39:57 <Jianhui67> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Cyberpower678/ActiveStats - we are going to lose some admins and an oversighter soon! 16:40:01 <dennyvrandecic> input is more than welcome 16:40:15 <dennyvrandecic> a screenshot is here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool 16:40:23 <sjoerddebruin> Jianhui67: We need to ask active users to become sysop. 16:40:32 <dennyvrandecic> and we have decided, after discussion on the wiki, to integrate the front end as much as possible into the Wikidata UI 16:40:38 <dennyvrandecic> instead of creating a standalone tool 16:40:40 <Jianhui67> I asked Liuxinyu, but he did not want to 16:40:44 <dennyvrandecic> so basically, you surf Wikidata as normal 16:40:56 <dennyvrandecic> and when there is some data you can integrate from freebase, we show it in a different color 16:40:58 <Lydia_WMDE> let's discuss admin stuff once dennyvrandecic finishes? :) 16:41:07 <Jianhui67> sure 16:41:08 <dennyvrandecic> and you can choose to reject, accept, edit it, etc. 16:41:23 <dennyvrandecic> the third component is the data 16:41:40 <dennyvrandecic> we have for now created a very small dataset and uploaded it in the front end, mostly for testin purposes 16:41:59 <dennyvrandecic> a dataset a bit bigger will be uploaded once freebase has gone read-only and we have processed the final dump 16:42:24 <pfps> How is this tool going to work when Freebase completely goes away? 16:42:32 <sjoerddebruin> Dumps? :) 16:42:46 <dennyvrandecic> in order to make sure that we squeeze as much data as possible out of freebase, that you might consider useful, we will host Tpt_ this summer at Google 16:43:01 <Lydia_WMDE> \o/ 16:43:05 <dennyvrandecic> shout out to Tpt_ who has agreed to come to us to work on this! 16:43:18 <audephone> yay! :) 16:43:20 <dennyvrandecic> pfps: none of the tools depend on Freebase being available 16:43:21 <Tpt_> Hello everyone! 16:43:23 <Scott_WUaS> :) 16:43:52 <Lydia_WMDE> Tpt_: so you're the first wikidata editor in residence? :D 16:44:02 <dennyvrandecic> So Tpt_ will help us to figure out all the mappings and how to translate the data to Wikidata 16:44:14 <Tpt_> Lydia_WMDE: In a way, yes ;-) 16:44:15 <dennyvrandecic> and also in which order to get it to you, etc. 16:44:47 <sjoerddebruin> What's the best thing that people can do now, dennyvrandecic? 16:44:52 <sjoerddebruin> Add Freebase-id's? 16:45:09 <dennyvrandecic> we will focus first on increasing the number of connections between existing wikidata items 16:45:13 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: yes 16:45:19 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: and most effectively for properties 16:45:30 <Tpt_> Imho improve Wikidata properties and class hierarchy 16:45:34 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: I have made a small set of 20 hand-mapped properties for my first extractions 16:45:47 <sjoerddebruin> Yeah, after the announcement I've already said that we need to match those. 16:45:48 <Romaine> is there a tool that looks for Freebase items that have no ID on Wikidata, and tries to match them? 16:46:08 <Jianhui67> not bad 16:46:19 <benestar> what about users of the freebase api? Are there many? And does the Wikidata provide the same functionality? 16:46:19 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: but what would be super useful is to have, for more Freebase-properties, to which Wikidata-property they should be translated 16:46:51 <dennyvrandecic> Romaine: not that I know 16:47:08 <Tpt_> sjoerddebruin: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1628 may be used for that 16:47:08 <dennyvrandecic> Romaine: we also did most of the low-hanging fruits already based on Wikipedia-links matches 16:47:10 <PKM_> dennyvrandecic: is there any easy way to see what needs to be find with unmatched properties? 16:47:17 <sjoerddebruin> Tpt_: Yeah, I know. 16:47:37 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: yes, they are quite a few. And no, Wikidata does not provide the same functionality 16:47:41 <sjoerddebruin> PKM_: It's hard to query that I think. 16:47:44 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: yet 16:47:56 <Romaine> dennyvrandecic: how do you have an overview what is moved to Wikidata (or already there) and what is still to be moved>? 16:48:36 <dennyvrandecic> PKM_: discussion on how to make that as easy as possible is here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Freebase#Property_mappings 16:48:53 <dennyvrandecic> so either me, or later Tpt_ can create ranked lists of properties missing mappings 16:49:02 <dennyvrandecic> and then ask for input on how to map those 16:49:10 <dennyvrandecic> but I don't know where and how this would be accomplished best 16:49:19 <dennyvrandecic> More than happy to receive input on that 16:49:34 <dennyvrandecic> Romaine: oh, that's a good question 16:49:44 <dennyvrandecic> and one answer that surprised me most so far 16:50:05 <dennyvrandecic> so I have currently set up a pipeline where I map Freebase to Wikidata as far as possible 16:50:12 <dennyvrandecic> and then filter out what is already in Wikidata 16:50:29 <dennyvrandecic> so that we don't push that to the users as well, as this would just clutter the system 16:50:43 <dennyvrandecic> and Wikidata has already an amazingly good coverage 16:50:43 <Lydia_WMDE> (fyi: we officially have 10 minutes left but there is nothing scheduled here after this so given that there is a lot to discuss today we can make this run over today) 16:51:09 <dennyvrandecic> so, in short, Freebase will not add that incredibly much to Wikidata as it is generally assumed 16:51:30 <Romaine> ok thanks for the answer 16:51:50 <dennyvrandecic> but you don't have to take my word for that, Tpt_ will come here to make sure of that, the dumps are available for independent analysis, and I think we might also have a writeup in the end 16:51:50 <matej_suchanek> Lydia_WMDE: per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours we have 40 minutes... 16:52:02 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: oh good to know :D 16:52:03 <dennyvrandecic> to give a full breakdown of how it went, including the numbers 16:52:18 <dennyvrandecic> I think i answered all questions so far 16:52:28 <Lydia_WMDE> Tpt_: do you want to add a sentence to the FAQ as well saying you'll join? 16:52:28 <dennyvrandecic> any more questions to me, or Tpt_, or Lydia? 16:52:43 <Tpt_> Lydia_WMDE: Yes, it's a nice idea 16:52:44 <Scott_WUaS> dennyvrandecic: amazing work in progress ... big shoutout of thanks! 16:52:46 <Lydia_WMDE> :) 16:52:54 <dennyvrandecic> oh, one more point - the tools are really early stage 16:52:55 <PKM_> Seconded! 16:52:56 <dennyvrandecic> they should work and all 16:53:02 <Lydia_WMDE> yes! thank you dennyvrandecic for going the extra mile to do this all the right way 16:53:05 <sjoerddebruin> dennyvrandecic: Any idea why logging in is required for me on school (Freebase)? :) 16:53:07 <Lydia_WMDE> instead of just dumping the data 16:53:13 <dennyvrandecic> but we will slowly roll them out, without much loudness 16:53:33 <dennyvrandecic> and also gather feedback so that it gets better over time 16:53:43 <dennyvrandecic> as the user base grows 16:53:58 <dennyvrandecic> so that when Tpt_ starts working on the data, we have a tested and stable environment 16:54:06 <benestar> <benestar> dennyvrandecic: tell us a bit about how google will use Wikidata now, please :) 16:54:11 <pfps> I'm confused as to the statement that Freebase doesn't add much to Wikidata. The raw numbers on Freebase topics 47M vs Wikidata items 14M seems to indicate otherwise. 16:54:14 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: no, I don't :) 16:54:45 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: Google has an internal Knowledge Graph, which is fed from several different sources 16:55:16 <Lydia_WMDE> pfps: it comes down to different ways of counting plus concepts we consider not notable 16:55:34 <dennyvrandecic> among other sources, Wikidata is a source we are using as an input, but also MusicBrainz, etc. 16:55:59 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: actually, a huge chunk of data we use is schema.org, i.e. the Web itself 16:56:18 <dennyvrandecic> and for SEO, really, i think it is much more appropriate to use schema.org than to try to push yourself through Wikidata 16:56:52 <dennyvrandecic> just like it is OK to have a Website about your product or company, you shoul also have your little knowledge graph about your company, described in schema.org 16:56:57 <sjoerddebruin> dennyvrandecic: If I remember it right, YouTube uses content of Wikipedia without attribution. Could you communicate that internally? 16:57:24 <dennyvrandecic> sjoerddebruin: that would be bad. my email ist my last name at google dot com. please send me info on that and I will look into it 16:57:33 <benestar> dennyvrandecic: that SEO point has to be made clear from Google's side as well, not only on Wikidata 16:57:44 <sjoerddebruin> Will do. 16:57:56 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: the main difference between Wikidata and Freebase for Google is that we trusted Freebase, it was our core of the KG 16:58:18 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: Wikidata on the other hand is just one source among many 16:58:31 <Lydia_WMDE> (but a good one ;-)) 16:58:33 <dennyvrandecic> benestar: yes, we say that wherever we are asked :) 16:59:01 <benestar> ok, this will prevent some SEO spam on wikidata I hope 16:59:16 <dennyvrandecic> pfps: the difference in number is mostly a difference in counting and notability 16:59:23 <Lydia_WMDE> yeah if it is in the FAQ that'd be really helpful to be able to point people to it 16:59:42 <dennyvrandecic> pfps: especially the difference in "fact count" is ... grossly exagerrating 16:59:47 <dennyvrandecic> incredibly grossly 17:00:41 <dennyvrandecic> the item count is partly based on differences in ontology, i.e. in what counts 17:01:13 <Lydia_WMDE> alright. more pressing questions? or should we hand over to Jianhui67 for the discussion about admin activity? 17:01:25 <dennyvrandecic> thanks folks for your questions! 17:01:29 <Jianhui67> good 17:01:39 <Romaine> dennyvrandecic: thank you for your work 17:01:45 <Jianhui67> right, i think we should close the RFC 17:02:55 <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Reforming_administrator_inactivity_criteria is the RfC in question 17:03:45 <Jianhui67> we may be losing one oversighter anyway 17:03:58 <Jianhui67> if does not do 5 more admin actions on time 17:04:27 <Jianhui67> he is SPQRobin. if he really loses access, then we have no european coverage 17:05:05 <sjoerddebruin> That will be bad. 17:05:52 <matej_suchanek> Lydia_WMDE: could you tell us more about the arbitrary access development? you know, I am really looking forward to having it launched 17:06:25 <Romaine> my first question would be if there is a tool to measure admin actions? 17:06:31 <Jianhui67> well, can we have someone not involved to do the closing today 17:06:38 <Jianhui67> matej_suchanek 17:06:50 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: usage tracking is a requirement for it. so this means knowing which data is used where. we're currently running into issues there with multilingual wikis and caching. i hope we can fix this soon and have it rolled out on the first projects. 17:07:31 <sjoerddebruin> Romaine: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Cyberpower678/ActiveStats ? 17:07:41 <matej_suchanek> sorry, missing courage for it :( 17:08:03 <Jianhui67> Romaine 17:08:44 <Jianhui67> benestar, i think you are not involved in the rfc as well 17:09:19 <benestar> Jianhui67: sry, was afk 17:09:22 <benestar> which RFC? 17:09:29 <Jianhui67> 1:02:57 AM <Lydia_WMDE> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Reforming_administrator_inactivity_criteria is the RfC in question 17:09:33 <benestar> ty 17:09:55 * Romaine has to go now 17:09:59 <sjoerddebruin> btw, I'm also uninvolved but this RFC is too confusing for me 17:10:44 <Jianhui67> indeed... 17:10:48 <benestar> so the results will be 5 admin/crat actions over 6 months, no reprieve and no regaining 17:10:54 <benestar> right? 17:10:59 <Jianhui67> yea 17:11:53 <dennyvrandecic> added to the Freebase FAQ, hoo: Lydia_WMDE: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:FAQ/Freebase#By_adding_to_Wikidata.2C_I_have_a_free_ticket_into_Google.27s_Knowledge_Graph.2C_right.3F 17:12:02 <Jianhui67> we should ask cyberpower to rewrite his script as well 17:12:31 <sjoerddebruin> I don't think he responds. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Cyberpower678/ActiveStats 17:12:34 <sjoerddebruin> Ehm 17:12:34 <sjoerddebruin> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cyberpower678 17:12:49 <hoo> dennyvrandecic: Nice! :) 17:13:51 <dennyvrandecic> i'll let someone else add the translation tags, they seriously confuse me every time 17:13:51 <Jianhui67> if he's here in IRC I will ping him 17:14:36 <matej_suchanek> dennyvrandecic: will do 17:15:01 <Scott_WUaS> dennyvrandecic: do you have a URL for Wikidata translation tags? 17:15:26 <dennyvrandecic> Scott_WUaS: https://github.com/googleknowledge/qlabel 17:15:32 <benestar> Jianhui67: here you go ;) 17:15:38 <Scott_WUaS> Thanks ") 17:15:40 <dennyvrandecic> Scott_WUaS: or better, http://googleknowledge.github.io/qlabel/ 17:15:50 <benestar> can you handle the archiving thing etc? 17:15:59 <Jianhui67> Great! 17:16:03 <Lydia_WMDE> \o/ 17:16:05 <Jianhui67> thanks benestar 17:16:07 <benestar> have to go now and wont come online this week again perhaps :/ 17:16:14 <benestar> or only from mobile ;) 17:16:21 <Jianhui67> why? school? 17:16:28 <benestar> vacation :P 17:16:49 <Lydia_WMDE> sweet 17:16:55 <Lydia_WMDE> anything else we should discuss today? 17:17:04 <sjoerddebruin> Will we get new merch? 17:17:04 <Lydia_WMDE> benestar: bye :) 17:17:06 <Scott_WUaS> dennyvrandecic: (WUaS could help with this eventually - planned for Wikipedia's 288 languages +) 17:17:07 <benestar> so have fun with the new rfc and cya 17:17:09 <sjoerddebruin> Like the Wikidata onesie? 17:17:17 <benestar> * closed rfc 17:17:19 <Lydia_WMDE> sjoerddebruin: hihi. i'll add the onsie to the wish list 17:17:20 <Lydia_WMDE> :P 17:17:33 <Lydia_WMDE> other suggestions for new merch? 17:18:00 <dennyvrandecic> Scott_WUaS: sure, qlabel uses linked open data standards, so works out of the box with anything that implements that 17:18:45 <Lydia_WMDE> if there's nothing else we can wrap this up for today 17:18:49 <Lydia_WMDE> thanks so much for coming everyone 17:18:53 <Lydia_WMDE> this was fun :) 17:18:57 <dennyvrandecic> thanks everyone! 17:19:07 <Scott_WUaS> Great ... qLabel which you wrote is great too ... WUaS (but it wouldn't be me) isn't quite there to help with this ... but let's stay in touch about this 17:19:33 <Scott_WUaS> dennyvrandecic and Lydia and everyone: Thank you! 17:19:36 <Lydia_WMDE> matej_suchanek: you have the honor of closing :D 17:19:50 <matej_suchanek> okay thank you all 17:19:53 <matej_suchanek> #endmeeting